Tom Morgan: 0:34

It's time for another ACP, and I'm joined as ever by Alex. How's it going, Alex?

Alex Baker: 0:40

Hi, Tom. Yeah, good. Thank you. Yeah, it feels like we've uh, we've not done a podcast for a little while, so glad to be back. Glad to have an

Tom Morgan: 0:47

been a little while we've had a Yeah, absolutely. We are very excited guests. We're gonna talk about it in a minute, but yes, it has been a little bit of a hiatus, but but we're back now and back with a bang so we got together and we were sort of wondering what to talk about and, and where we haven't already covered. And we thought we haven't really done a lot with sort of outbound campaigns and that kind of proactive outreach. And so we thought who better to talk to than the head of product for Amazon Connect. Proactive engagement solutions and I'm really pleased to introduce Anjan Mukherjee, who is with us today, Anjan. Hello.

Anjan Mukherjee: 1:20

Hello, Tom Alex. Great to be here.

Tom Morgan: 1:23

It's fantastic to have you here. Uh, Yeah, really excited about this. So we're gonna be talking all about outbound campaigns. So Anjan, I've given your kind of job title as I found it on LinkedIn. But can you just take us through the kind of things that you do day to day at Amazon Connect.

Anjan Mukherjee: 1:39

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Well first of all, I'm just so glad to be here and and talk about this a set of solutions. That I'm very passionate about and motivates me a lot, so this is, this is gonna be great. So, so here's, here's what I do in a, in a nutshell, my role on a, regular basis is to help businesses figure out how they can proactively engage with their customers. At times that matter most in order to, to drive outcomes that are, beneficial for their customers, that are beneficial for their, for their their businesses in, in order to, to drive loyalty, in order to increase sales and improve better customer satisfaction.

Tom Morgan: 2:24

When I think about bound campaigns, I have this kind of use case in my head that. It's kind of high volume sales outreach calls, like, is that what we're talking about? Or is it, is there more to it than that?

Anjan Mukherjee: 2:36

Oh, that's a, that's a fantastic start. So, so yes, like everything that you mentioned that's, that's all in there. So, so maybe I should, I should pause and take a few steps back. And kind of take us, take all of us back to those you know, to, maybe 10, 12, maybe even, even 15, 20 years back. Remember we used to have, we used to have calling, so imagine somebody in a call center punching numbers on a phone and then, and then calling, going through a list of customers and calling them down one at a time. So that was a business, and ultimately they were trying to achieve the same thing, like be it you know, calling them to remind them of, of an appointment or to, to help them through a, a financial hardship or what have you. Then there is also the concept of callbacks. So, you know, you customer calls into a contact center. The, the queue is really lengthy. And then contact centers started offering them an ability to have them stay in line, but then give them a call back at a, certain time. So then came interactions with SMSs. So, no longer there's a voice call only, there's also an SMS that would be be sent out and or an email being sent out. And then what we are seeing though, so, so these are all, these are all the different ways of, proactive outreach of having businesses call their, their consumers. But we have started to see a a, a remarkable shift in, in consumer preferences, certainly over the last few years and perhaps a little longer as well. So, so more and more consumers are, more interested in interacting with with businesses on more digital channels. So, SMS or or an email, sometimes even via push notifications. And increasingly more on social media. So Facebook or Instagram or such. That's number one. We are, we are also beginning to see a slight shift in consumer sentiments because these interactions consumers expect should be a lot more personalized. So if if engine doesn't like to to interact on an SMS, but he'd rather, he'd rather have a voice call, well then that's what the businesses should, offer. Whereas Alex might, might prefer interactions over email. So that's what becomes the next thing. And I think the third shift, which is very interesting, is is the interactions to be a lot more personalized. So don't have a generic message for Tom just because of, of everything that you know, that, that Tom should know or, or should be inclined to know, but have a message specifically for Tom, which is, which is very relevant to Tom. And I think, so that's the, so those are some of, some of the shifts that we are beginning to see in the, in, in how consumers behave. And, and honestly what research tells us is businesses that are able to engage with their consumers in a personalized manner using proactive communications. At a moment that matters consumers tend to be more loyal to those businesses, more loyal to those brands. And that's essentially what the, what the genesis of what you know, what I do tends to be yes, of course there's outbound dialing, which is, you know, which is necessary, which is going to going to stay, but it's not just about that. So there is a lot more to creative engagement than that. The human interaction is, you know, remains as, as one of the most coveted perhaps, and the, the most value add of all interactions because. Because you can, you can manage that conversation. The individual is able to talk to the consumer in a, in a lot more of a personalized manner, demonstrate empathy and, and solve the problem in a manner which perhaps some of these other asynchronous channels or a. Asynchronous communications aren't able to do. So. Outbound campaigns with within Amazon Connect through all our proactive engagement solutions is able to offer a multitude of these capabilities again, to drive better engagement with consumers.

Alex Baker: 6:36

I love the idea of the, the channel of of choice.'cause I. Maybe it's a, a hark back to the, those of older days of the, the more traditional outbound campaigns. But I, I think I'm always deeply suspicious of just a, an unsolicited call coming in on a, a number that, that I don't recognize. Also, being able to sort of have tight times of contact of a customer's choice as well is, is quite good. I, I know that the, outbound campaigns, you can do things like sort of set time zone restrictions so you're not sort of calling your customers across, you know, all the time zones in, in the us You're making sure you're not catching people really early in the morning or, or really late at night.

Anjan Mukherjee: 7:16

That's, that's exactly right Alex. I think you not, not just from a consumer standpoint, which is absolutely important, but remember, these communications also must adhere to a number of legal regulations. You, you kind of, I. Implied some of it within the, in, in the US with the, Telecom Consumer Protection Act and the the TCPA and in the UK there is the Office of Communications that have similar regulations and, and ultimately these, these acts, these regulations are there for a reason. They're, they're trying to protect the consumer. That's kind of the main purpose. But, but for a business helping or adhering to these, these bars is, is, is just a necessity. Yeah. That's just stable stakes. But, but outbound campaigns and, and Amazon Connect helps businesses go a lot further than that. Like, not only are you able to set some of those limits, but you are also able to set, do not, do not call mechanisms so that if Tom doesn't, doesn't want to be contacted anymore from this particular business, there is a way for Tom to express that, you know, that that opinion and then for the business to, to actually adhere to it. So that Tom is not contacted even inadvertently for a, you know, for a reason that he has chosen not to be. So those are all, those are all capabilities that we offer. But then we do a lot more. So we help engage with Alex perhaps first. With an SMS and then follow up with with a voice call and then summarize the whole conversation with an email just so that we have a, you know, we have multiple different ways to engage with with consumers.

Alex Baker: 8:49

Am I right in thinking as well as the option for taking voice calls? But agentless voice calls as well, which is, is something probably relatively new.

Anjan Mukherjee: 8:58

That's a, that's also another great call out. So, so companies especially think about use cases like a, like a payment reminder or an appointment reminder. Where it is not always necessary to have a voice interaction. We offer agentless calling. We, we call it the, the voice notifications as a way to make a call. And if a live consumer picks up, then play a certain message. For example Tom, you have an appointment coming up at, at three o'clock on Tuesday. Press one if you want to confirm. And if for whatever reason it goes to Tom's voicemail, a different message plays, which is which is Tom, this is your doctor's office calling to remind you of your upcoming appointment. So, so there are, there are flexibilities that you can you can offer through Amazon Connect Solutions. Exactly. To your point, Alex.

Tom Morgan: 9:50

It's about so much more than just outbound calling, isn't it? I think it's and this sort of plays into my sort of next question, which was gonna be about who's, who is it, who's this for? Like who is it really just big companies that should be looking at this. But actually I'm sort of starting to see that it, it's about building it much more into your sort of the workflow of your business. Rather than that default of like, when we need to communicate with the customer, we'll send them an email actually. It's about, we have all this infrastructure, we have this capability. We're already taking calls. Maybe we're taking SMSs as well inbound. How can we use that same technology to make a better customer experience rather than just sending emails all the time. But sometimes email's the right thing, right? But it's, it becomes the default communication mechanism.'cause it's easy.

Anjan Mukherjee: 10:35

That that's exact Exactly right. So, so I'll give you an example of of some, some emergent use cases that we are seeing, which is, which is fascinating. So so we have, you know, we have one of the businesses. That you know, they have they actually run a, a fairly successful student learning mechanism. So, if a consumer fills out a, web form. They actually get a, you know, get a call within five minutes of, of filling out that form. So it's almost a, it's almost kind of an event driven campaign almost, or an event driven communication. So depending on the change of the, of the consumer behavior, we have the ability to engage with that customer at that moment. And again, this is a, medium sized business that gets a value. When engaging with the customer, when they are most interested, again, going back to this notion about, you know, moments that matter, like this is one of those things where, we can capture the engagement of the consumer at a moment when they are most interested, which is when they took the time to fill out the form and, and they would, they would perhaps love to engage with somebody who would give them a little bit more information about the, the course that they're interested in enrolling for. What we hear from such customers is, when there is a, when there is a more real time or a timely engagement with with such consumers conversion is much higher. So the sale is made. The outcome is, what companies want happen that actually ends up happening when an engagement happens at the moment that matters.

Tom Morgan: 12:03

How should people approach this if, you know, they don't really do any outbound campaign stuff today? What's the, what's the best way to go sort of get into it, I suppose, you know, should you pick a, a part of your workflow or should you pick a tech, like a, a communication method or how do you sort of think people should get, get into

Anjan Mukherjee: 12:21

Yeah. That's, that's a question that, that we get fairly often is, is is, is how do we, how do we start this engagement? Because the, the choices are immense. So, what we typically tell tell customers is is to, is to first begin with understanding your, your customer data, because ultimately that's what it boils down to. Like, as a business, I need to know who Alex is. What are Alex's past interactions what are the products and services that, that Alex uses? Where are the ones that, that Alex is actually really good about kind of using using those services and, and what are the ones where Alex has some pain points? There's opportunity on both sides. Like if, if Alex is really happy about using a service, then, then perhaps you know, the business should consider offering Alex an upsell offer on, on using and deepening his connection with the company. If on the other hand, Alex has had a few bad interactions or there's reason to believe that Alex is not happy with the product. There is service recovery that can happen proactively. But either way, there's opportunity. So there's opportunity to engage with Alex because as a business, you know that if you are waiting for Alex to reach out that's more of a reactive, that's more of a, that's more of something that it's, it's fine when, when companies do that, but there is a lot more that a company can do to make sure that Alex remains with the, with the brand. So typically we, suggest companies start with a simple email, for example, that's, it's one of the, assuming that, you know, that that the company has Alex's, that the consumer's email ID and such. It's one of those low, low cost channels to begin with, but the power there is about personalizing the message. For example, Hey Alex, we've seen you've, you've been using our products for the last three years and and we value your business. We would love to, as a, as an appreciation for your business, we would love to offer you this opportunity to, to upgrade into our next year. Add the same price that you're using, and we would love to hear your feedback on that. So that's, that's an amazing way to engage with Alex in a, in a channel that typically tends to be low cost. And then, and then potentially wait for a week or so and see if, if Alex has opened that email has clicked on one of the links that that has been, has been included within. And then depending on what that action is, probably follow up with a voice call and say, Hey Alex, this is your Your business calling and, and we would love to have an opportunity to interact with you about other products and services that we offer. So those are the, are the ways to, you know, to begin the same could be said about the, the, the service recovery as well. If, if Alex is having a problem and you would, you would want to offer help.

Alex Baker: 15:02

Here's an interesting point that you, you make about the did the, did the customer read the email? So presumably there's also a level of being able to report on every single interaction. Did they read the email? Was the the call that we made answered on the, the first attempt or this kind of information that can help build up that, that picture of how best to interact with them as well?

Anjan Mukherjee: 15:26

That's, that's exactly right. And in this area as you probably picked up, it's, it's, it's a very outcome driven business. It's a very outcome driven service. I. So yes, I mean, of course we want to engage with with, with the number of customers. Of course we want to use a number of channels, perhaps sometimes multiple channels. But then, so what, like how did it, how did it drive my business? Did I make the sale that I was supposed to make? Did the individual show up for the doctor's appointment when they were supposed to? If I am calling to ask for a political donation, did they actually donate? If I'm calling to, let's say ask for for a blood donation, did they actually show up with a clinic to donate blood? I. So it's a it's a very so what business. So Amazon Connect solutions, we we actually preserve the, the interaction history of that that have happened. And then we also. We also preserved the, the dispositions at the end of every interaction. So when an SMS was was delivered, like, was it delivered delivered successfully for, and was an email delivered, was it, was it opened for a voice call? Was it picked up by a live customer or was it a voicemail? Was it a fax number? And then and then we, we also have the mechanisms for a particular recipient, for a particular, for a consumer to see the history of interactions that have happened over time. And then, and then that itself is data, which is very rich. In terms of, in terms of identifying like, how many interactions did it take before Tom actually bought the product because Okay. We, we first sent him an SMS, then we followed up with an email and it took two interactions before, before Tom purchased the product that we were about to, that we were trying to sell.

Tom Morgan: 17:13

And would it? Yes, and it is good customer service data as well. Like there is nothing more annoying than, receiving a call from a company you, you do business with and they're calling you to, you know, to potentially upsell you on something. But actually you were kind of maybe thinking about it anyway, so it's fine. And you kind of be like, okay, yeah, fine, fair. Like, we'll do it. And then it turns out that like they don't actually have all of your information in front of'em. They just were really on flight, had some kind of list, you know? So like at that point you, you want like, I shouldn't then have to be like, right, let's, can we just verify? Like, verify we've just been talking for half an hour. Like it's, yeah. Yeah. It shouldn't be.

Anjan Mukherjee: 17:52

that's exactly right. And, this is a use case that we come across, you know, fairly often. Let me flip this on the other side. Imagine there was a fraud issue happening on your credit card. And then imagine not being able to, to know that something is happening and then not being able to tell the customer that, okay. You know, Tom, there's something going on. We just saw a charge on your, on your credit card that we don't recognize. And then imagine the, imagine the company being able to actually do that. Like being able to call them, being able to send a push notification almost on a near, instantaneous basis. So imagine the interaction of of what, what the consumer feels when they, when they identify fraud much later versus in near real time. I think. I think those are interactions where, where this ability to identify, authenticate and then provide a service which is relevant in the moment becomes, very important, especially in the proactive engagement world. So, so a hundred percent agree with your, your perspective.

Tom Morgan: 18:53

I'm not a sales person, but going to be sold to. I kind of, I don't mind, as long as I know it's coming. Like I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm worst at it. If I'm coming at it cold and I was in the middle of something else. So actually almost a, maybe there's some kind of, yeah, we almost like a warning, a pre we, you know, we are thinking we we're gonna call you this afternoon, like,

Anjan Mukherjee: 19:16

Yes. Yes.

Tom Morgan: 19:18

upcoming contracts. Like, if that's not a good time, let us know. Like, reply this. Like, but give us some time'cause we do need to talk to you. Like, yeah, but I, I'd be up for that, like, yeah. Yeah.

Anjan Mukherjee: 19:28

that's, that's, that's you, you actually, you actually reminded me of of use cases where where we find businesses who have these, these multi-touch communications. So, you know, sending an SMS and saying Hey Tom, this is this is company. This is your Acme Bank calling, and we have an important topic to discuss with you and we will call you in the next two hours. And we see businesses increase their pickup rates significantly, almost two or three times, versus others who, who do not have this multi-touch engagement and that's exactly true. Like you, you talked about the consumer behavior here. It's almost like if you know that there is a warning, there's a, there's kind of a, there's kind of a mechanism that's already there in place to, to, to talk about a, a follow-up call that's coming. Then the individual knows, number one, that it's not gonna be spam. Like you said earlier, like, if you don't recognize a number you're calling from, like, its like a, there's propensity to just let it go. But then you also know that there is a, this is a legitimate call. And then, you know, let's, let's talk to this individual who's about to call. So, so this is another. Mechanism of proactive engagement, which is very

Tom Morgan: 20:35

definitely, definitely. I, I don't think this is in the product today. I mean, you tell me if it is, and, and it's one of those things that we, we discuss these things on the call sometimes, then come off the call and be like, I. We should probably have kept that as a partner thing. But anyway I, you, you kind of want that, like, you want to be able to just reply and be like, yes, but I'm only free between two 30 and three tomorrow. And it's like, yep, we, we fine. Like we'll put a task in for an agent then don't worry about it. Like, that's so powerful. You know, like it's and we, we, I, I dunno if we are there, but like, you could see how all that stuff could, you

Anjan Mukherjee: 21:04

That is, that, that's, yeah, that's absolutely right. So and, and, and that's a, that's a very astute observation as well, Tom. So we offer this capability across Connect as a, solution. But it's something that we recommend businesses can, can actually build this. Like, it's, it's almost a combination of. You can use a self-service capability, and if a customer says that, you know what, I'm, I'm available, I'm not available now. So we, we use some AI capabilities to, to detect intent and, and kind of get the customer intent at that point and say, well, call me tomorrow between three and 4:00 PM. And then we will take that intent again from the self-service bot and then create a task, exactly like you said for an agent or a or an individual to call them between two and three, the following day. So that's, that's something that, that can be, you know, that can be configured.

Tom Morgan: 21:55

Yeah, absolutely. You can kind of see how you could do that, which is cool.

Alex Baker: 21:59

You, you mentioned ai and I, I'm also really impressed with how, because I think outbound campaigns has sort of evolved quite recently in that there was a, a sort of first iteration of it and then was it reinvent Last year, the, the new version came out and it seems to have AI really sort of baked in at, at the core of it. One of the things I, I like is the AI driven segmentation, so it seems to make it really accessible for it. Maybe those businesses Tom was talking about earlier on, they don't really know where to start. They don't have experience in the, the sort of outbound space that AI helper sort of at the core of it seems to be a really good way of, of, of making it accessible to, to a lot more people.

Anjan Mukherjee: 22:43

Most definitely Alex, so, so, yes. I mean, you, you're right. Like outbound campaigns has gone through you know, a couple of iterations. And then last reinvent last fall in 2024 launched a number of really really powerful capabilities, including the AI driven driven segmentation where. Where we recommend to, to businesses, what could be some of the customer cohorts, some, some customer lists that, that could be proactively engaged with. So that's, that's definitely one of those capabilities. We believe really in offering businesses the choice. Like if they, if they want to use want to use ai, well then that's, there's a. An all you can eat capabilities across different channels for for, for connect including outbound campaigns that, that you can use. And then, and then use the multiple different mechanisms that are offered within connect to use ai to make some of those mechanisms come true.

Tom Morgan: 23:37

I think there obviously like AI is, is changing lots of things, but I think it's got a real potential to change, how much more personalized and how much smarter some of the, the outbound like reaching can be. I mean, we, we are currently in that kind of terrible place where it's sort of AI but without much thought. Like you sort of see this a lot, you know, where you get these kind of like robocalls of, hello, would you like grass seed, you know whatever. And, but I think, I think the technology is there for so much more at the moment. You are probably seeing, talking to customers like you, you're probably seeing some really interesting uses of, of AI in, in kind of that personalization or you know.

Anjan Mukherjee: 24:15

Yeah. I mean that is certainly true. I mean, it's I, I, I think we, we, we are all going through this, this cycle, especially in the last one and a half, two years almost. Where we have a lot more opportunity in how we can use some of the, the newer AI capabilities. And we believe in the, in the proactive engagement space. This is, this is one of those areas which, which can really benefit how companies can leverage this. We do see a world where companies, where businesses should be able to, to use interactions, either managed through agents, both human agents and AI agents and, and help solve problems with consumers. Who need to be contacted who, who perhaps need a interaction to solve a problem before it occurs. And I think Amazon Connect is in a, in a really good position to help that. You talked very specifically about personalization. Like that's a, a very critical area for us to invest in. Because, we believe that we have the capability to understand more details about you know, about consumers in order to recommend what the, what perhaps the next offer should be. Or perhaps the, the next action should be perhaps to, to engage with what the next channel should be like. It's, and so we have engaged with Johnny on on email. And then what should be the next message that we should, we should send Johnny in order to, in order to win his mind share and, and potentially his business. So those are some of those capabilities that you will see us talk more about as, as time goes.

Tom Morgan: 25:51

Yeah, absolutely. No, it's really, really interesting. There's, there's a thing in the back of my head that, that is like a, there's a, there's a personal version of this that's nothing to do with companies where, you know, is there a world in like five years time when we all have essentially our own installs of, of Amazon Connect making, you know, and, and you just like start up your days like, I need to sort an appointment with the dentist. I need to move the garage appointment. I need to do this, this, this. Go, go, go. You know? But we'll have to see if that's.

Anjan Mukherjee: 26:18

No, that is I, I think, I think we are our, our, our thoughts are, are aligned. And, and here is where I think it is, it is important for, you know, for Amazon Connect as well to, to think about this future where it is not just an interaction happening between a human and a human, but also think about interactions between. An agentic AI with a human, or a human with an agentic AI or an agentic AI with another agentic ai. So it's like a, so there are these multiple combinations of, of different interactions that are happen that, that that will happen. And. Ultimately we believe that this is perhaps the, the best thing for the consumer. You talked about you know, about, about personal lives and such. Like, we, like imagine we all lead such busy lives with kids, with, with, with work, with, with other commitments and such. So if, if there are systems and, and mechanisms around us that, that perhaps help us work through some of those details, for example, planning a vacation, for example. It would be, it would be fantastic if you know, if an email came to me with says, you know, okay, you're traveling with, with small children, like here's a, you know, here's a flight that, that's, that, that's already booked for you, that you know managers little kids. Here's, the resort that you can go, go stay in, which has, it's already, you know, pre-booked and such. Here's a car that you can rent at at the location, which, which has car seats and, and other necessities already, already pre-booked. And all you need to do is to just click this button. And then, so, so those are, those are things that, I mean, that's the world that we see you know, coming up probably sooner rather than later. And, and we believe the capabilities that Amazon Connect offers through proactive engagement and through the other services it's something that we can help businesses achieve that that vision.

Tom Morgan: 28:06

I totally agree. It's gonna be really, really interesting to see kind of the next couple of years, I think we could talk about this all day, but it is time to bring this episode to an end. Anjann, thank you ever so much for your time. It's been, it's been really, really, really interesting. And

Anjan Mukherjee: 28:20

Thank you so much for having me, gentlemen. So pleasure to, to be here and, and speak with you guys.

Tom Morgan: 28:26

fantastic. Thank you and thank you all for listening. Be sure to subscribe in your favorite podcast player. That way you won't miss the next episode. Whilst you're there, we'd love it if you would rate and review us and as a new podcast. If you have colleagues that you think would benefit from this content, please let them know so you find out more about how Cloud interact can help you on your contact center journey. Visit Cloud interact.io. We are wrapping this call up now and we'll connect with you next time.